Sanaz Amidi
SA: Sanaz Amidi
INT: Interviewer
INT: Hello Sanaz, can you explain who you are please?
SA: Yes I’m Sanaz Amidi and I’m the Chief Executive of Rosetta Arts.
INT: What’s your personal background in terms of where you were born where you were brought up?
SA: Yeah so, I my parents migrated here in the 70s and I was born in the 80s in Plymouth and at the age of two we came to Newham, and I grew up in Newham and then then I left at the age of 19, partly because there weren’t really very many opportunities here in the borough, and I was very fortunate to be an accepted into Centra St Martins and then later Camberwell College of Art as it was an opportunity for me to, yeah.
INT: How did you make that transition from being at one of the best art schools in the world to being the CEO of Rosetta Arts?
SA: So, when I was living in Newham as a teenager a came across Rosetta arts from 17 years old. I was looking, specifically, for a photography course. Rosetta was the only place locally to me that offered photography, so I did a photography A-level here and I got to know the founder of Rosetta Arts – Yvonne Humble, and I guess if Yvonne maybe took a bit liking to me and thought I had something that was worth bringing back to the studios and invited me to teach that same photography A-level course when I was about 18 /19 years old. So, I was often the youngest person in the class for an adult A-level photography and that’s where I start to get to know Rosetta, and back then it was called Rosetta Studio Workshops. I continued working with Rosetta, delivering a range of different programmes, and when Yvonne decided to step down, I think back then she would have been 80s or so, she approached me and a couple others to take on Rosetta, people that she felt really understood the ethos of Rosetta and its vision for breaking down access to education and had a very strong art education focus.
INT: Can you tell us a little bit more about the ethos as it was back then?
SA: It was about using arts education as a kind of learning opportunity for people to, professionalise, like to learn new skills, to a professionalise those skills and to be part of a community of like-minded individuals. Often, people would refer to us as East London’s best kept secret and when I took over in 2007, I was like, that’s not good. We need to open up Rosetta. We need to let as many people as possible benefit from what it can bring and how it can enrich people’s day-to-day lives.
INT: And what was your specific vision back then in opening up Rosetta to the community ?
SA: One of the very early observations I made, particularly when I was teaching here, it was always that we were meeting people a lot later on in life – who never quite had the opportunities; whether it was that in school, or not having the family support, or not , you know, living like I did in the borough, where they weren’t as many opportunities – that the only way to get the opportunities was to leave, and for me coming back, that real lived experience, has been quite a big part of Rosetta’s DNA since. It’s completely leveraged what already existed here and the assets, which are the people, which is the art, which is the community, but my vision has been around enabling as many people as possible to benefit from what the arts can bring, and to minimise the kind of experience I had growing up in a borough, at that time, where there weren’t as many opportunities, but also they weren’t very many people that looked or sounded like me when I went into the arts either. So, when I went to Art School, you know, it was tough because I didn’t have that sort of background, and that was a tough experience as well, you know, I didn’t fit there either, so, you know, those who, I guess some of the those very sort of strong observations I made, that have informed, with others, not just me, but with others, the kind of path that Rosetta has gone on in the last 16 years since.
INT: Could you explain some of those strategies that you used to bring on the diverse community – like yourself?
SA: I think the key strategy, and it’s in everything that we do, talk about at Rosetta, our magic ingredient at Rosetta, is its people, its artists. So, we formalise, I guess the pathways and I guess, the various critical pathways that creative practitioners can go on to start to have their voices heard on a social, cultural economical level, and if they can do that, and they are representative of the communities in which we try to reach, and they are the magic ingredient, they are the special sauce that goes out in the community, and is empathetic to the community that we try to engage, then you know, it’s an ever-evolving cycle. So, if we found that that’s the way to engage people. It’s all about people really! That chemistry, that empathy ,the values being aligned, the shared experiences, they already help with the kind of journey, that we can have others to go and come back, as I have, you know I went away and I came back to Rosetta.
INT: What kind of activities was Rosetta involved in particular?
SA: Well, when I wasn’t the Chief Exec here, Rosetta Studio Workshops had some adult learning courses in various arts subjects from theatre costume, textiles, fashion, painting, drawing pottery and those are very much still present, most of them, in our portfolio today, but then they would occasionally do some summer schools for children, local children and that was mostly it really, you know. Then they would do things like catwalk shows, exhibitions and day trips, so there was a strong kind of focus on getting local people to benefit from what the arts can bring, learn really, you know, skills and have access to facilities that they wouldn’t ordinarily have access to, and people, and they had some amazing lecturers and visiting artists here, and even back then, there were relationships with universities, so of the partnerships that I observed when I came in, was The University of East London. So, it’s quite nice that having had that relationship quite early on in the Rosetta journey, even before I was a part of it, that we’re celebrating our 30th anniversary, marking that relationship with UEL.
INT: Can you tell us about some of the people that come through?
SA: That a really good question! There are lots! We’ve had people who have won many awards, whether it’s locally or Internationally. You know, he most well-known alumni of Rosetta is Alexander McQueen who obviously was known locally as Lee McQueen and he was under the guidance of Yvonne Humble, so it’s quite nice, also in our 30th anniversary year, a plaque has been put up to recognise the relationship to Newham and to Rosetta Arts.
INT: How is the relationship now with those organisations such as UEL and all the other partner organisations?
SA: It’s stronger than ever! I mean, Rosetta Arts actually exists on very much the goodwill, enthusiasm and the support of our partners because the journey that we need to take with our artists, with our creative practitioners, with our audiences, with communities, all that handholding we do, we don’t do our own. We do better by working together, you know. We recognize there is so much talent already that exists in the borough; whether it’s through our partner organizations; smaller collective groups or individuals and we are better to be in a position to elevate that; to bring that into benefit from that richness. So, that’s very much, kind of one ,of our three key values that Rosetta is about working together and that’s very much embodied and everything we do.
INT: How did you move on to attract core Arts Council funding which is an amazing thing for any organization to achieve?
SA: Yes, so actually it was nice that on our 25th anniversary back in 2018, we were able to announce that we have joined the National Portfolio. Rosetta, in the years before that, had started become really well known. Diversity is very much in our DNA. The whole ecosystem is very much about working towards developing the talent pipeline of artists and creative practitioners who are underrepresented, but also about how we elevate the voices that we don’t ordinarily hear, and we were becoming recognised for that before we even applied to our NPO, (national portfolio funding), from the Arts Council. One year, I think it was in 2016 or 2017, The Arts Council approached us to have their whole Research and Development Team, as well as their Director of Diversity, and a few other of their key senior management team to come and spend a day with us at Rosetta and find out what we do, learn about you know, why we were so successful in the areas that we work. One of the questions that I was asked from that team and was ‘why has Rosetta never applied for NPO status?’ My response was: we never felt welcomed, we never felt that it was in the narrative of what was being put out back then.
We had engaged with several officers and their response about, you know, it’s such a shame that my colleagues won’t travel this far east or, you know, I remember saying do you think we could get the Chief Exec of the Arts Council to come. At the time we were planning for our 25th anniversary, and they just laughed. They said what here? They would come here? That was the kind of attitude that we were coming across, so we never felt welcomed, but one of the things that we did do in 2015 (so Rosetta was historically a social enterprise initially when I took over in 2007, it was a constituted group) and in 2009, we changed the business model to a community interest company, so social enterprise.
As we went on we found that the CIC model didn’t quite deliver what it promised at that time and it wasn’t as workable for us to, kind of, demonstrate the stronger governance structure that we wanted to have within your organisation. So, in 2015 as part of that, we set up an advisory board and we started to curate that board and think about what kind of voices do we want on here, and we treated that advisory board like a board of trustees. We started to develop the capacity and capability within the organisation to manage a board, to report to a board and so as we worked our way towards that in 2017, we felt we were in a comfortable space with the right people to transition into a community CIO community Incorporated Organisation. I’ve forgotten all my acronyms, a Charitable Incorporated Organisations, so we, in 2018, were able to announce, along with our success into the NPO portfolio, our charitable status with the board of trustees. So, we’ve been on a journey to formalise Rosetta, to improve and strengthen its governance and to spread the responsibility really so that it’s not just, as we saw with Yvonne, pretty much on her shoulders, back then, the running of the studios, and yes and as part of that, in 2018 we still dropped the Rosetta Arts Centre and became known as process Rosetta Arts because we found that whilst we do have a centre, Rosetta Arts exists in lots of different spaces and places, and not just in an arts venue.
INT: Do you think the structure will future-proof the organization moving forward?
SA: Yeah, absolutely! I mean since 2015 we’ve been, we’ve applied quite an of rigor in our governance structure. We’ve gone through several iteration since checking our business model. Rosetta is in a position of strength and that’s why I felt like the right time to step down, if there was a time to step down, it was now after 16 years, because I wanted to ensure that Rosetta, and its incoming CEO, had the best chance of success.
INT: What’s your hope for Rosetta moving forward?
SA: Well, I would love to know that in 30, 50 years or so, or 100 years’ time, Rosetta is still being a pioneer and the champion of good quality arts education skills and training that can enable people to take their next steps to be able to earn from their creativity, to be able to advocate and self-advocate for the things that matter. I think fundamentally, in terms of those key values that’s what I would love to see Rosetta continuing, and I think it has still quite a long way to go on its growth journey it can, you know, it has more room to grow basically can do more.
INT: Can Rosetta continue to be publicly funded organisation?
SA: The private sector do contribute already 20% of Rosetta’s work – so we have some really good partnerships organisations. Rosetta, in order to be incentivise and motivate, to do what they do, should be granted-aided because we’re not here to make money we’re here to do the right thing.
INT: What’s Rosetta’s legacy?
SA: Rosetta’s legacy is all of its people. You can have the shiniest buildings, you know the best facilities and everything, but the legacy is in all those shared stories, success stories and experiences where Rosetta has, somehow, enriched that person on their journey, whether it was a journey of, you know, feeling less isolated; feeling more connected to their community; their culture; that they’ll be able to feel better because they weren’t feeling very good; or they were able to get their first commission; or multiple commissions; or their first, you know, first permanent role or something, you know.
It’s those wins, sometimes they can be quite small and sometimes they could be big wins – that’s the legacy. Obviously having great facilities, having a fantastic accessible venue, those are things that Rosetta will, you know, should and will achieve in the future, but yes, I think that it’s, it’s that it’s the art in the public realm it’s, it’s the memory, you know, those are part of the legacy of Rosetta Arts and it’s taking me seven years to get to this point of my 16 years – to feel ready to let Rosetta go. It’s grown up quite a bit and it’s ready to spread its wings and I’m really excited about the incoming Chief Exec. I think the board have done well to find someone who is visionary and ambitious because that’s the sort of characteristics of a person is required for organisations like Rosetta, it doesn’t need a caretaker, it needs someone who can also recognise where the talent is and nurture and empower it to do its thing. I think that Rosetta is not one person – it’s everyone’s.
INT: What one piece of advice would you give the incoming CEO?
SA: Gosh! There’s quite a few things I would say, but if there was the one piece of advice, I would – is believing your vision because you’re in a really good place to make it happen, you’re in a really good place to make it happen, you’re with really good people to make it happen, you have really good quality partnerships.
